VIDEO: One On One With John Salley

this was a lovely interview!! Can’t wait to see what products he has in store for naturals;-)!!

While I love his commitment to healthy diet and raw eating and I am totally don for a food revolution, there are a few health misnomers that need to be corrected.

I want to preface my statement by saying that I think it’s really important to correct these misnomers about nutrition because there are a lot of people who are trying to regain their health and find these extreme diets of raw food attractive psychologically because they are such a radical departure from what they’ve known about food preparation– and I understand that. Plus, so many raw food advocates, like Sally, look so health and thusly give the diet a lot of appeal. I mean look at that fine brotha and his glowing skin. Right? Everyone has different nutritional needs for their body types and with so many African American women being anemic I would hate for someone to not do their homework. We can ALL benefit from eating more fruits, vegetables and nuts. The average American diet is a virtual commode of nutrition. Just do your homework

The first issue is that although gorillas do eat a primarily vegetarian diet, it is not true that they do not eat “animal” protein. In fact they consume a hefty portion of protein in the form of insects, insect larvae, worms, beetles. This comes not only from these bugs not only foraging on the vegetables that gorillas eat, but also from the gorillas seeking out these insects to supplement their diet. A typical gorilla eats about 90 pounds of raw food a day, so you can imagine the amount of bugs that get consumed on their “produce”. Since we tend to wash most of bugs from our produce and most westerners do not eat bugs as a primary source of protein, the gorilla argument becomes fallacious when inspected more closely.

The other issue is the purity of “raw food” diets versus other forms of food preparation. This also couldn’t be further from the truth. Although eating more fruits and vegetables is certainly good for anyone, many vegetables and fruits only release their nutritional benefits when they are heated– like tomatoes for examples. They only release lycopene when they are stewed. I could go on with a fairly extensive list of foods that require heat, but for the sake of brevity I’ll leave it to the reader to do that research.

The truth is a vegan/vegetarian diet can really make you sick. Many vegetarians are anemic and have chronically low vitamin b-12 in their bodies. Humans cannot manufacture b-12, neither can gorillas, and that is why we have to eat some form of animal protein to get it. In particular when you visit countries that have large populations of people “vegetarian” diets, like India, people there still consume copious amounts of raw, unpasteurized butter, cheese, whey and milk as part of their “vegetarian” diet. They are not consuming animal flesh per se, but they are getting their b-12 from animal sources. Whey is one of the most nutritional sources of protein known. That’s why body builders eat copious amounts of whey to build muscle rapidly and athletes suck down protein shakes for muscles recovery AND why people who are intensively sick (cancer patients) are put on elemental diets inclusive of whey to get maximum nutrition.

Also, many vegetarians will tell you that they feel spiritually enlightened from switching to a vegetarian diet. But in fact, most of that sense of a “high” is a zinc deficiency caused by the increase in whole grains in their diet which have high amounts of phytic acid which robs the body of essential minerals like magnesium and calcium which are the power minerals of the body. This is why in so many traditional cultures that eat whole grains, the grains are fermented and sprouted to reduce the phytic acid and hence boosting their nutritional profile for consumption.

Lastly, the whole argument about if you love animals you would not eat them argument simply does not hold any water. Most species in the world eat some form of flesh for protein– from the simplest wasp to the mighty Orca. There is a reason why it’s called the circle of life. For religions that don’t practice flesh consumption, many of them are still getting some form of animal protein from other sources; cheese, milk, even eggs! People may for their own spiritual development find it distasteful to consume animal flesh, but they need to reconcile how to counter basic biology with their spiritual concerns, or they will find their own flesh quickly decaying from their ignorance. There is a reason why so many cultures have rituals around giving thanks for the bounty of things to eat on this planet. Life is a beautiful struggle, full of contradictions and complexities which seem to be irreconcilable. Why would we have to commit the violence of killing to optimize our nutrition? Hmmmm. That is a conversation with God. But until then, please research all of the facts about switching to a vegan/vegetarian diet before starting one.

To your health,
Malaika

Love this interview, I met him about amonth ago at WorldFest here in LA.

In response to Malaika,

You brought up some great points. There are many people that follow a hype and have no clue what they are getting themselves into. I’m a vegetarian of 3 years and vegan for one year. I definitely think people need to do their research. But, I do not know a single vegetarian/vegan that is deficient in any vitamins or minerals. Mostly because vegetarians seem to be aware that they could potentially be deficient, if they’re not careful. Non-vegetarians tend to think that they get everything they need from their diet.

I’ll touch on a few of your statements:
-A raw diet does include foods that are heated to 116 F. So, though tomatoes need to be heated to release lycopene. Sun dried tomatoes (raw) have more than a cooked tomato, grapefruit and watermelon also have high lycopene levels.

-B12, a staple among vegans is nutritional yeast. 2 Tbsp gives the full recommended adult dose. I use it in grits, on pizza, in sandwich spreads. Most of us, receive the recommended B12 from non dairy milks, orange juice and non dairy yogurts, as well.

-I was anemic as a child, teen and adult. I remember crying because I couldn’t donate blood throughout high school and college. This year was my first year being able to donate blood, as a vegan, and I definitely attribute it to my conscious eating habits. I now eat more beans, spinach and other green veggies, which are packed with iron. In order to absorb iron, you have to have vitamin C. Because of this most of the iron in red meat is much less absorbed than that in a vegetarian meal. E.g. someone can eat a 1700 Calorie steak and get the same amount of iron as a 100 Calorie serving of spinach.

- As a nurse, that has taken care of many cancer patients. I know that Whey shakes are given for the fat and calories, the protein simply helps rebuilding the tissue and is a bonus. These patients experience a decrease in appetite due to cancer treatments and need alot of fat and calories fast.

-I think you typed the whole grain thing wrong, because whole grains are actually sources of zinc. And the whole grains produce enzymes to remove the phytic acid, which binds to zinc preventing it’s absorption. So you want whole grains. Also, most zinc comes from meat, but too much zinc can reduce good cholesterol (HDL’s), which is why too much meat does the same.

Our bodies will tell us, what we need and we have to listen to it. I took multivitamins as a kid, my mom gave us the Flinstones chewables , and I still take vitamins now. We all should, whether we eat meat or not. This helps to balance the deficits in our blood. On one day we may get more protein that we need, the next we may get less. Our body does not store extras, they get excreted, so vitamins come in pretty hand at those times.

In nursing school I remember being told “African Americans are more likely to have_,_,_ because of the diet that they are culturally used to”. I begged to differ, if more “African-Americans”, were aware of the benefits to conscious eating (paying attention to nutrients, sodium, fat, etc), they wouldn’t mind the thought of eating a bit differently.
Ultimately, we should all pay attention to the nutrients we receive in our foods. Fruits, veggies, nuts and legumes are very important.

Okay, smile…
This is a really great dialogue!!!!

I am so glad that someone knowledgeable has responded and added much food for thought. I am really glad to read that you are finding health and wellness with a vegetarian diet. Congratulations.

Since this is so much fun, I made headings on these issues to make reading this response a little easier. Please don’t thing because I capitalized things that I am internet yelling…(hehe)

UNHEALTHY VEGETARIANS
I unfortunately know too many vegetarians who ARE chronically ill. In academe, one tends to run into a lot of people who read a lot and become conscious about their environment. Food sourcing, carbon footprint, GMOs are first and foremost their top issues of concern. I agree with them. The ecological impact of eating certain diets is frightening and makes some people radically change their diet. I’ve changed my diet for this reason as well. However, many of the diet changes that people make are equally bad for their health. I call these people fruititarians (lots of fruit in absence of protein), soytarians (tons of soy milk, soy meat substitutes Faux cheese, texturized vegetable protein) , pastatarians (lots of white flour pasta), sugartarians (quick energy fixes because they’re low on protein). These people believe that by eating diets that are primarily comprised of these items that they are making healthful decisions. But, in fact they are sick. Many of my female friends/students are anemic, they are always getting colds, they have skin issues. The list goes on and on. I can’t tell you how many of them I’ve counseled about their diets to only have the real issue revealed that they are not eating enough variation. Their pursuit of moral peace damages their bodies. It’s really sad!

FORMS OF LYCOPENE
Specifically I want to talk about lycopene. Like most phytonutrients, lycopene has many geometric isomers—some shapes which are more bioavailable to the body than others. It turns out that when lycopene from tomatoes is heated to about 260 degree Farenheit, it becomes what is called cis-lycopene which is a geo-molecularly bent form of lycopene that is more bioavailable than its nonheated cousin which is straight. When you add fat to this bent form (olive oil, butter whatever), it becomes even more bioavailable. As it turns out for tomatoes, the high temperatures of heating and “bending” the lycopene makes it better for the body. That’s another reason why sundried tomatoes have more lycopene as well—they are in general saturated in olive oil and the heat application of sunlight concentrates the lycopene.

Now here is the real nutritional issue though… Your’e right watermelon does have a powerful punch of lycopene as do many fruits. However, most American do not eat watermelon in the same copious amounts as they eat tomatoes. Ketchup, tomato sauce for pizza and pasta sauces, are some of the most common sources of lycopene in the typical American diet. So in order to get the amounts of lycopene you reference most American would have to eat watermelon almost everyday to get the same amount of lycopene they ingest from tomatoes. One problem that mitigates that is costs per calorie. Watermelon, as is most fruits and veggies, is a hell of a lot more expensive that your average can of prego. Secondly, watermelon is seasonal. The tomato industry is ubiquitously inserted in our staple foods that most Americans can access them all year round—so another complication for advocating dietary change. Thirdly, sundried tomatoes are considered gourmet food and hence more expensive than a can of a tomato paste. For the price point, you get more nutrition from a bottle of Prego and sacrificing money for the more nutritious options of sundried tomatoes.

Lastly raw food preparation takes an inordinate amount of planning and time to get the nutritional variation that would create a balanced diet. Many of these celebrities have chefs and or the staff to help them create their raw food diets. Most raw foodist spend gobs of time preparing their food—which is fine if you are not the average working person.

BREWERS YEAST/NUTRITIONAL YEAST
You did say nutritional yeast and you’re right about it. I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve had with vegetarians who are like Yeast? That’s bad for you. It can make you sick—confusing candida yeast with sachromyces cerivesae. Yet, many vegans make the mistake of confusing brewer’s yeast with nutritional yeast. Brewer’s yeast does NOT intrinsically have vitamin B-12 unless it is intentionally fortified with B-12. Then it is called Nutritional Yeast. This is really a contentious issue because many vegetarians do not know the brands that are fortified versus non-fortified or the difference between brewer’s yeast versus nutritional yeast. In fact there are only two manufacturers of brewer’s yeast that fortify their product; Twin Lab and Lesaffre (formerly known as Red Star). Unlike you, many vegetarians also don’t know that they have to do a daily supplementation of B12.

Secondly, like most vitamins B-12 has what are called active and inactive analogues. The protein bound analogues are more bioavailable because they are protein bound and light protected. The active B-12 forms are adenosylcobalamin hydroxocobalamin and methylcobalamin. On the other hand, the inactive analogues can interfere with the absorption of the active analogues—and many plants make inactive forms of B-12 (seaweed). This is why lots of kids who are on macrobiotic diets get anemia.

HEME verus NON-HEME IRON.

Non-heme iron, iron that comes from plant sources is the most difficult form of iron for the body to assimilate. Your body can only absorb between 2-20 percent of non-heme iron from plants and grains and only in the presence of Vitamin C and no phytates. On the other hand, Heme iron, iron from animals has an absorption rate of anywhere between 15-35 percent and is extremely efficient for the body to uptake. Now of course the rates at which your body absorbs iron has a bunch of cofactors that mitigate the amounts that you can absorb—increases in phytates can decrease level of non-heme iron (there go the grains issue that you mentioned). High levels of vitamin C can enhance heme and non-heme sources of iron. But concretely, heme based sources of iron have significantly more bioavailability and are more efficiently absorbed by the body. The science on this is irrefutable and that’s why in traditional societies what we considered offal, ie organ meats like liver, spleen, heart, were reserved for the most socially elevated. These meats were considered more healthy. Most Americans eat too much muscle and not enough marrow.

THE PHYATE/ZINC WHOLE GRAINS ISSUE
When any mineral, whether it be zinc, calcium, magneusium or iron, encounters phytic acid, it gets neutralized in the body or becomes insoluble. Whole grains only produce phytase, the enzyme that reduces phytic acid, when they are either sprouted or fermented. Cooking whole grains does reduce some of the phytic acid—that’s why some grains are actually toxic unless they are cooked because of their high phytic acid content.

So why are whole grains healthy in SMALL amounts and what’s the zinc connection? Whole grains are important for intestinal health because it is important to have some phytic acid in the body to reduce oxidative stress from minerals. Periodically, the intestines need a “cleansing” and the effect of the fiber that most of these grains have is that they sweep out the colon. However, in many developing countries where people have significantly less access to protein and have diet high in grains, they experience SEVERE mineral deficiencies from their diets. So again, this is a mixed bad. People need whole grains and legumes, but they need protein and cooking techniques to process them properly.

But the too much zinc thing and the HDL cholesterol is also up for debate. Traditional Eskimos and Masai diets are by Western standards excessively high in meat, which shoots their cholesterol through the roof and their zinc levels. Yet they have some of the lowest rates of heart disease—practically non existent. Most of their meat is high in Omega 3s (whale blubber) and CLA (grass fed cattle have more Omega threes and CLA ergo more nutritious milk and meat). Go figure…

TRADITIONAL AFRICAN AMERICAN DIET
This is an issue of which I am threatening to write a book about because I believe that there is a HUGE difference between the traditional African American diet and what many of us fool ourselves into thinking is soul food. Our grandparents did not grow up eating mac and cheese and fried chicken every other day. In fact, they ate more fish on average, more vegetables (black eyed peas, okra, collards, kale mustard greens) and offal meats. We drank a lot of fermented dairy (buttermilk, clabbermilk) and very little cheese. We baked whole grain corn bread not that Jiffy mix processed crap in the store that is devoid of the germ. We also ate very organic food and seasonally. So many people ate from their gardens, farmer’s markets, the watermelon man. We made broths from the bones of animals–chock full of nutrition. If more African Americans really ate a traditional diet, we would probably see significantly LESS incidence of heart disease. I am really threatening to write and ethnographic cook book on just this issue. Like I said threatening (smile).

In the end it’s all about eating a balanced diet. You’re right. Our bodies do have different needs on different days. Sometimes I laugh at my cravings only to realize that it’s by body’s way of telling me I need more of certain kinds of minerals or other nutrients. For example, when I was pregnant, I craved crab meat like you would not believe (high zinc).

Imma stop now….whew….looking forward to more talking!